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Jeremy Kashnow Notes:
Day 1
January 13th, 2006 - 09:00
San Francisco Room
Introduction
& Welcome by Lucius WerthMuller
Today we mark a very special
occasion – the 100th birthday of Dr. Albert Hoffman. Dr. Hoffman
is well-respected in Switzerland
and in fact, the Swiss President actually sent a personal letter of
congratulations.
This was not an easy
conference to organize. Interestingly the conference center had been
booked this weekend by Novartis (formerly Sandoz Pharmaceuticals) and in
honor of Hoffman, they decided to allow this symposium to use the center
instead.
It’s appropriate to be here in
Basel,
where LSD was discovered. Perhaps a better place would have been San Francisco, however this room is called San Francisco and we
hope Dr. Hoffman appreciates this birthday present.
This will be no ordinary
conference.
1st Panel –
There will be no overview of
Hoffman’s life. That will come later. Hoffman was looking
forward to this conference, however he was anxious that he might not be
available to meet personally with everyone here. He’s had a difficult
week with all of the ceremonies, so please respect that and do understand
that Hoffman will not sign any books at this symposium. As Albert
puts it, “I’m no longer 90 years old!”
Interview with Dr. Hoffman
We are here to discuss the
past, present and future of your “problem child.”
Moderator: Could you, perhaps, briefly tell us about the history
of LSD.
Hoffman: I first synthesized LSD in 1938 while working on
agents to improve blood circulation. The pharmacologists determined
that it had little effect so it was shelved until the spring of 1943.
There had been new methods developed between 1938 and 1943, so for some
reason I decided to revisit this compound and I asked our pharmacologists
to test it once more.
Something was happening to me
and I had to leave the lab and I rode my bicycle home. I saw strange
colors and felt wonderful.
I then tried to figure out
what happened to me last Friday? Had I inhaled some vapors of
chloroform? No, I must have accidentally spilled some LSD and
absorbed it through my skin. I decided to test my theory by
intentionally ingesting a very small dosage of LSD. I started with a
quarter of 1/1000 of a gram. I knew that even if it was poisonous, it
would not harm me because no known toxin at the time would be harmful in
such a small dose.
The effects were
imperceptible, so I decided to increase the dosage ten-fold. It was
too much. I called the doctor, but he couldn’t find anything wrong
with me. It was a horror trip. I felt that the end was here and
I truly believed it.
I really felt it was time for
me to say goodbye.
It was a funny situation…
quite irrational, really. I was aware of the situation I was
in. I had just discovered something so incredibly special and all of
a sudden it was my time to go. This is what I had to deal with.
I waited for the horror trip
to come to an end. I waited for my wife to return from Lucerne with the kids
and they arrived around midnight.
Slowly, this horror trip had
turned into something magnificent. I was reborn and then I slowly
fell asleep.
The next morning I went into
garden and it was impossible to describe what a wonderful experience I
had. I truly felt as if I had been reborn.
LSD came to me. I wasn’t
looking for it. I was looking for a blood stabilizer, but it turned
out to be a psychoactive agent.
I sent my report to my boss
and he just didn’t believe me. This was the most potent psychoactive
substance ever discovered. Associates tried it, but took ¼ of what I
took and found that it worked.
LSD wanted to tell me
something.
Pharmacologists had told me
that it was not psychoactive, but then it called to me. If I had been
working properly, without any contaminations, none of us would be here at
this conference today.
Interviewer: Well, it goes to show you that you never have
to be 100% perfect. How did this become a tool for scientists?
Hoffman: Colleagues said, this cannot be true, but then
they tested it and found it to be true. Doctors wanted to use
it. There had to be pre-clinical testing before use on
patients. So we took volunteers, including myself.
It was another horror
trip. It was a scary scientific setting. We were weighed and
measured and it was terrible.
I said, “I have to try LSD in
another setting.”
I spoke with my friend,
Ann_____, the author, and I told her I wanted to try LSD with her and we
had the first planned psychedelic session. I had a technician from
the lab as well, just to be safe. I had 50 micrograms and she had
100. It was a pleasant environment. We could see the trees and
the park. It was beautiful because I had experienced this in the
lab. I knew LSD was not supposed to be a technical thing, it was
supposed to be used with nature. We drank wine and talked into the
morning. This was the first planned psychedelic session
Interviewer: What happened in the 50’s?
Hoffman: We found it to be useful in
psychotherapy. What happened next is what completed this story.
In America,
the medicinal product made its way to the street and became the drug of the
youth movement. Many people used it, but often people were not
careful.
LSD is sacred.
It was not the right environment
for LSD. It was a blessing for some, but there were a lot of street
drugs being sold. The FDA then prohibited this substance. It
was a political prohibition.
In those days, the world
copied everything that America
did. This prohibition only applied to LSD. Everyone felt America
should be copied. LSD, over there, is still prohibited. <huge
applause>
Interviewer: What is the most valuable thing LSD has given
you personally?
Hoffman: It reminded me of experiences I had as a child,
a couple of times. One mind-expansion I remember as a child, I never
spoke about it at the time, but I never forgot it. It made me very
sure about myself. It gave me joy and gratefulness. The miracle
of creation. I’m grateful to my fate. I’m grateful to my
family. I’m grateful to all of YOU, who turned my problem child into
a wonder drug!
Interviewer: There are over 200 journalists here and over
2,000 attendees.
Hoffman was discussed as a
potential Nobel Laureate, but because of the negative hype, it was decided
this could be a liability.
Once the gates of perception
are open, you no longer need the psychedelic to get there.
“Albert Hoffman is a true
modern genius.”
 
14:45 - San Francisco Room
Afternoon
Panel
Ralph Metzner
Tim Leary went to Mexico
on vacation and he was given psilocybin mushrooms. He cam back from
that trip a changed man. The Harvard group obtained some pure
psilocybin and conducted a variety of experiments. It was tested to
treat alcoholism. The first large study we did was with criminals in
order to study recidivism. We thought this was a population where we
could control the variables and make sense of the results.
 We went to these prisoners and told them, “we are not
going to treat you as guinea pigs, but we’ll share this knowledge with you
and help you appreciate yourself. We’ll give you psilocybin and we’ll
even take it with you to let you know it is safe and make you feel
comfortable.”
We found that there is a great
difference between internal and external freedom – you could be locked up
in jail (no external freedom) but your mind is free – you could a free
member of society, but be plagued with depressed (no internal freedom).
The results were difficult to
interpret & ultimately ambiguous. The changes were very
subjective and needed to be studied over a greater period of time.
We did other studies on the
effects of psilocybin on creativity – we gave drugs to people like Allen
Ginsberg & Charles Mingus and asked them to comment subjectively on the
effects regarding creativity. These were people who were much more
familiar with drugs than we were. We were actually quite naïve at the
time.
And then there was the “Good
Friday” study – where we decided to test idea of set and setting with
another researcher – Walter Pahnke. Religious ideas were being
discussed by Huxley and Watts in relation
to psychedelics for some time.
The “set” was a group of
theology students – the “setting” was a church on Good Friday. Half
of the subjects were given a placebo and half were given psilocybin.
All criteria for a mystical experience held up with the test group that had
been given the drug. These results were validated in other tests at
the time and even 20 years later by Rick Doblin on same participants from
the first test. They were not given drugs again, but the effects of
that session were found to have persisted.
Our mission was to find a
framework for western culture to make use of psychedelics. In one
sense we failed, because we did not find new frameworks, however we did
find that the old frameworks were unable to make use of this new tool.
Leary was not opposed to
traditional scientific research. He had been a part of it himself,
but he felt this tool should be used in a different setting. Leary
was not responsible for the resulting attitudes towards these drugs.
That unfortunate result was due to the political response to our work at
the time.
16:30 – Montreal Room
Ask The
Shulgins
Q: You are working on a new
book. What is it about and when is it coming out?
A: The Psychedelic Index – A
collection of information on compounds that are known to be psychedelic or
might be psychedelic and they have a structure – each compound is in the
book with its structure, and an outline of how to synthesize it, pharmacological
properties, and legal status. There is also a collection of analogues
and homologues and a literature reference. There are ~ 2,000
compounds in the book and it will be ~ 1,500 – 2,000 pages. We hope
for it to be ready for proofreading by the middle of the year.
Q: How much anecdotal
literatures will there be?
A: If there are any, they will
be cited with each compound.
Q: A few years ago, you
mentioned you were working on a compound that is a cross between LSD and MDMA
with an aphrodisiac component.
A: Every new compound is a
brand new individual. You have to become familiar with it and it has
to become familiar with you. I do not remember what I was talking
about at the time. <laughter>
Q: Do you currently have
a relationship with the DEA and if you don’t, in light of new work being
done with MDMA, would you like to get back in the game?
A: We have a polite
avoidance with the DEA. They go their way and I go mine. The
DEA has its own world and I have my own world and they are completely
separate. My main interest is defining and developing new
drugs. Their primary ambition is to take drugs and make them
illegal. At the moment, I’m staying comfortably 4 years ahead of
them! <laughter and applause>
Q: Does the desire to alter
consciousness change with aging?
A: No! <applause>
Q: Is there any way to
extend the effective length of 5-MethOxy-DMT?
A: 5-MethOxy-DMT is not orally
active. So it must be smoked or injected or taken with something that
inhibits the oral breakdown. As with DMT, it occurs naturally in the
body, so you don’t tend to build up a tolerance to it. I know of one
person who had a three-hour experience on 5-MethOxy-DMT, which is MUCH
longer than most.
Q: You mentioned in PIHKAL
that while in Mexico,
a maid took MDMA while she was pregnant. You were watching Dune at
the time. In that book, the witch took a psychedelic while pregnant
with her child. Ever since I read that, I have been curious if you
realized that it was part of the story of Dune when you wrote that?
A: (Anna) You are talking
about Spice? No I didn’t realize that or think about that. We
were quite worried about her because she (the maid) was 8 months
pregnant. It turns out that it is most important to avoid drugs
during the first trimester. As a rule, no drugs should be taken at
all during pregnancy, although we left before she gave birth, we later
found that it was a fine, healthy baby.
A: (Alexander) Taking an
illegal drug while pregnant can cause you to lose the baby in another
way. In the US,
the government can take a baby away from a mother who gives birth to a baby
who has drugs in its body. This is cruel and inhuman, but it is real.
Q: Have you ever experienced
any olfactory shifts in perception?
A: The only effects I have
seen have been an enhancement in olfactory perception. What I did
notice one time that was one one particular compound I found a flower on my
desk to be bright and full of aroma. On another compound, I felt the
same way but became obsessed with the smell to the point that I actually
tore the flower apart to find out what was inside. While I have not
experienced an array of olfactory sensations, I have found an array of
attitudes towards my perceptions that have led to an array of behaviors.
Q: What would be the best set
and setting for MDMA?
A: (Anna) People who go to
raves would say it is best to be with friends and with dance music.
It is a personal choice. For myself, before we knew that repeated use
of MDMA causes the effect to drop off, I took it once a week for just over
a year, and for me, it was my writing drug. And this was before MDMA
was illegal, and I took it because it opened up the paths of me that were
creative. So instead of a dance floor, for me it was a quiet room and
my computer.
Due to this overuse, however,
I cannot get any effects from MDMA.
Q: Forever?
A: As far as I know. The
dosage I was using ranged from 125mg with a 40mg supplement to a
year-and-a-half later a 250mg dose with a 100mg supplement at which point my
writing on PIHKAL was done and I decided that that dosage level meant I
should stop entirely, which I did for several years.
Sasha: There has been no loss
of sensitivity to new materials, however.
Anna: When this question is
asked at colleges and universities about how often one can take MDMA.
After pointing out that it is difficult to be sure that you have pure MDMA,
I tell them that more often than 4 times per year is a mistake.
Q: For all substances or for
MDMA?
A: Specifically for MDMA.
Q: What has been the most
important use of psychedelics for you?
A: I was using 2CE with
friends in a social setting – most compounds I can use socially and get
away with it and this time I couldn’t. I thought this material would
be like a normal psychedelic which allows me to give meaningful
information, but if I don’t particularly care for the question, I go on to
another question. 2CE would not allow me to go on to another
question. For a couple of hours I had to split from the group and sit
in a quiet room by myself and come up with an answer to the question I
didn’t want to answer in the first place! 2CE is an extraordinary
compound.
Q: What is your favorite
setting for use of psilocybin?
A: For us, our favorite set
for any good material is our bedroom.
The most meaningful MDMA
sessions for me were when I was acting as a lay-therapist and exploring the
dark side of people who wish to evolve their spiritual life. MDMA is
an extraordinary compound for therapy or for increasing one’s awareness of
oneself or one’s psyche. Each person is a complete universe unto
oneself. So these experiences that someone is going through
especially when someone is confronting their shadow, this is some of the
most terrifying work a human can go through and when they come through it,
when they understand it, the feeling that I have had is of having washed
and participated in a real miracle. I put most of this work into the
second book.
Q: I’m interesting in working
with people who are approaching death. Are there particular compounds
you would suggest for this work?
A: I believe Huxley wanted LSD
when he was dying. It would depend on the person. For me, I
would not choose LSD, because it is not my ally as much as mescaline.
It is a very personal choice.
Q: What do you think about the
fact that most of the speakers here are Men?
A: I think it is interesting,
but I don’t think it is important. I could point out that there are
no speakers who are Native American, or who are Black, so there are groups
missing. And some of the potentially best speakers are not going to
be open in public about their use of drugs. They are probably
professionals and they have too much to lose if the information is
misused. So the only answer to that is to repeal most of the existing
drug laws.
Q: I have a question about
MDMA and 2CB together – you mention 2CB can be used to “fix” the
experience.
A: Yes. 2CB after MDMA
in a therapeutic session… never use them together. But I did quite a
few sessions with MDMA first, followed by a not-very-high dose of 2CB and
the only disadvantage is that it makes for a very long therapeutic
day. But the MDMA serves as an opener, or a way of opening the doors
inside, and the 2CB (which is a true psychedelic) releases the emotions and
archetypes. So it is a very exhausting experience, but it can be
extraordinarily effective.
Q: Could DOB used in
psychotherapy? Is it not used because of its long duration? And
what is its toxic level?
A: DOB is a fascinating
compound. DOB is an extremely long-lived psychedelic. It can
last for as long as 24 hours. As such, it would not be the right
timing for a therapeutic session. There is an interesting point about
DOB I discovered some 34 years ago and that is… we were playing around in
the Lawrence Radiation Lab and we had access to some great equipment and
back then they said, “play with whatever you want and just turn off all of
the machines and make sure the door is locked when you leave.”
We injected DOB with Radon
intravenously and lying on the gamma detector we could see a scan of the
body on the oscilloscope. And we found, to our surprise, that the
first organ targeted was not the brain, but the lung. And the lung
built up a sizeable amount of radioactivity with almost none in the
brain. So we were toying with the humorous idea that the mind is in
the lung. When the level in the lung started dropping, the level in
the brain started rising. The reason it lasts so long is that it
doesn’t go directly to the brain, but metabolizes into something (unknown)
in the lung before going to the brain.
Q: Do you have any experience
with ADD?
A: (from an audience member)
2CE could be used (as mentioned above)
Q: how do you approach new
compounds?
A: I approach each stranger
with caution. I start with a level that I am confident will have no
effect. I increase or double the dose over a few days and I test
multiple compounds over multiple days so that I never build up any one
thing in my body. I know I have reached an effective dose when I
begin to feel the hairs on my neck rise at which point I drop the level and
space them farther apart. Because there are things, like convulsants,
that also make the hairs on your neck stand up, I keep Phenobarbital on
hand to administer in case of convulsions. I find there is also a
psychological process to follow… just never complete a thought. It’s
like marching across a bridge – if you think something to its conclusion,
you may have a problem. So keep moving in different ways with no
consummation of thought and I’ve never had a consummation of seizure and in
about 20 minutes the Phenobarbital has started to take effect. That
initial glow of a psychedelic and a convulsant are tough to differentiate.
Q: Do you have any techniques
to remember ideas that happen during sessions?
A: Yes, we take notes.
<laughter> A true psychedelic does not give you a period of
amnesia. Whereas some compounds that produce hallucinations may get
lost in an amnesia, a true psychedelic will not. When dealing with an
amnesia-inducing drug it is very important to have a “babysitter” and when
I come across an amnesia-inducing drug, I abandon it altogether.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Kashnow
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